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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 18,285
5/11/20 1:04 A

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Forgot to post my last comment on the May chat. Going there now.

Nine years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
10 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


4,189 Days since:  I began the NO S lifestyle
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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 18,285
5/8/20 6:25 P

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That all sounds so smart! I know what you mean about the weeds. I listened nearly all day long yesterday to a fasting and low carb ex-bodybuilder- so ironic since I would have to be dying to go low carb and refuse to accept that I need a lot higher muscle content, and because I want to get over being so caught up in all this. Why am I still spending so much time on it? But boy, was he knowledgeable about fasting, down to the mulitsyllabic chemicals from this or that. I found myself almost afraid to eat today because of how he said a person should break the fast. Then I thought, the hell with it, I know I am not willing to live the lifestlyle he might recommend, so why get so tied up over it? But his ideas did influence me, and I plan to alter what I had been doing. He is against a daily shortened fasting window. I'm not going to abandon it just yet. I need to get my mind ready for how I will alter things without going cattywompers. That was what happened to me before.

I'm doing pretty well. My eating plan is easy right now, and I am making progress weaning myself off being online all day and night. I didn't get over binging cold turkey, and I still have to eat. I figure it's much the same with binging on electronic devices.

I got invited to a small online Zoom cocktail party. We're asked to wear some kind of hat. Exciting!

Nine years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
10 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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CD25907434 Posts: 79
5/8/20 7:14 A

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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 18,285
5/8/20 1:23 A

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You say you are in a very very good place? I thought you were feeling discouraged.

I have to admit, I can imagine feeling discouraged. I actually don't believe everyone is supposed to be thin, or if they could be, what it could take might be asking too much, given different bodies and all the things that can affect whether the body holds its fat or not, but it doesn't make it easier to face the reality. On one Facebook fasting group, I'm astounded by how lucky some of the people are, but they don't see it that way, it doesn't seem to me. Some people post pictures showing really big changes in their size after just a few months, while others have been at it much longer and have hardly lost a thing.

I've let my diet get restricted because of wanting to be preventative about health problems, especially mental decline, but it does make me feel I have to be a kind of outsider, which I vowed I wouldn't be. And it goes against completely opposite restrictions that are popular in the fasting community. But as I've aged and learned, I've decided I can't justify being as liberal as I once I was. I agree that eating out is not near the fun it used to be. I might change my mind at some point and just say I'll take my chances. Being more limiting has led to losing a few more pounds without targeting calorie reduction, even though that wasn't the main reason. But I admit it's convenient to fit the image more. And the calorie reduction has happened by default.

I have to say that I was tracking food for two months because I was trying to keep my protein to a limit because of being influenced by a longevity researcher who found that protein was associated with cancer especially. He said senior citizens need slightly higher than younger people, but the upper limit for younger people was .36 grams per pound, so I aimed at slightly above that. At my present weight, and limiting bread and sugar, I actually had a hard time not getting too much protein just with beans, nuts, veggies, and grains. I had to be really careful on seafood days. I had to to a lot of juggling of foods. I was also trying to aim at protein being under 13% of calories. With that, it limited my calories and I did lose weight, which I was a little surprised at. I now guesstimate, but I think I'm getting my quota of protein.

Of course, if I weighed more, it might have been harder to get enough. (But bodybuilders would think I was starving myself.) And I am not saying that I might not get more fat burning eating more animal foods. It's just not worth it to me.

I hope if new people drop in, they don't get turned off by all the nutrient talk, since so many fasting influences say not to be so concerned with it, but it's mostly us and I'm glad to be able to talk about it. I run other teams where I am glad we don't focus on all that; I like having the option.

I cautiously ask if you have ever consulted with a knowledgeable expert that might guide you through some longer fasts periodically. It is amazing some of the changes that happen even besides weight plateaus that people sometimes break through with them, though I may not be telling you anything new. I've been doing a fast-mimicking diet several times a year that the developer claims has many of the same effects as a 5-day water fast. It's used in clinical settings with cancer patients and others. Actually, I'm cheating because he advises against trying to cobble your own version of it, but that's what I do. I can't prove it's made the changes that are claimed, and I've never sustained the bit of weight I lose doing it, but I don't expect to, since I've never gone into it truly overweight. I can't even say it's recalibrated my eating, but I"m doing it anyway on blind faith. In test trials, it was found that patients with some serious problems who did it once a month for three months sustained some anti-aging markers even though they didn't change their eating in between. He doesn't recommend it for people over 65 or 70. I'm pushing it at 66, but my plan is to keep doing it at the turn of the seasons for a few more years.

Nine years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
10 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 18,285
5/7/20 4:44 P

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I haven't even started to read your posts, but you never have to apologize for multiple posts!

Nine years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
10 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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CD25907434 Posts: 79
5/7/20 11:41 A

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CD25907434 Posts: 79
5/7/20 8:55 A

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CD25907434 Posts: 79
5/7/20 8:21 A

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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 18,285
5/6/20 7:32 P

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I felt a twinkle of real hunger before bed last night, but nothing too roaring and I really didn't want to break my fast. I did feel hungry this morning (when I tried IF a couple of years ago and had a long overnight fast, I was surprised that I often awoke with no hunger at all. Ironcially, I was eating a much worse diet then. I got re-seduced to what I call particle foods. I finally gave it up and it took until January of this year, minus about three months last spring, to get over it. Now those foods seem more like the ruby slippers to the Wicked Witch of the West than anything really attractive, though I like the sparkle!) Did not eat because of a few things until 11. Not going to lie, I felt so hungry by then that I could barely figure out what I would like. I can get too caught up in that so I just went with trying for some variety with tofu I had defrosted instead of beans, then the usual suspects. I feel so full still even though I will have to eat in about 45 minutes if I want to close my window at 6. I will not skip dinner again so soon.

Nine years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
10 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 18,285
5/6/20 1:02 A

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I had some things happen that greatly reduced my eating window today. I've been forcing myself to stay off devices (except for exercise videos or the like) until I open my window at 10 and to stay on my feet or be exercising. I tested a microwave I had to give away and found a few more decluttered things that I had to clean up some to put out on the corner. Then got involved in a phone conversation so I didn't get to a yoga series I'm supposed to do on an empty stomach until later. Ate a meal at noon. I forgot that I had webinars from 4 until 7. I usually close my window at 6. I fretted a little bit over this, but was so un-hungry before the webinars that I decided to have nothing and gauge my condition later. Still not hungry at all at 7. I was nervous about skipping dinner, but it has worked out. It's much better if I just wait until something like this comes on than forcing myself to do it, or so it seems. I went to watch the sunset and pick up some floral wire a neighbor had set out for me, and it just got too late, it felt like, to eat.

When I was in my late 20's, I did an "eating" course that was basically Intuitive Eating- wait until you're hungry, eat what you want, etc. I could never master it, and one of the issues was that I couldn't make myself wait long enough to get hungry because even then, I could sometimes go a long time without legitimate hunger. Not having some idea of when I might eat again, the sporadic-ness of it, was untenable. (To be honest, I doubt I would have been able to fast as I have been then.) Having the eating window, even if I end up shortening it or often eating during it when I'm not hungry, calms me. I am cautiously trying to just wait sometimes- though I actually wasn't even starved at noon. And I'm not willing to "eat what I want." No, I don't trust my body because I feel it's been too perverted by the food supply. Besides, we are likely to go for what is familiar, and those foods are NOT the foods shown to lead to long healthspan. I'm not convinced people who practice IE, even if they end up getting slim, are going to be in terrific health in old age because I just don't believe they would end up eating the kind of diet long-lived people eat when left to their own devices. But don't tell them that...

Are you using Mediterranean principles in your meal planning? I don't stick to any one cuisine, and I eat a lot of things I never saw on a plate when I was growing up.

Nine years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
10 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 18,285
5/5/20 5:54 P

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So great to hear from you, even if you're feeling frustrated.

I see so much misery around the scale that I can't believe that research shows not only that people who weigh often weigh less but that there is no statistical evidence of poor attitude towards oneself around it. It very much detracted from the quality of my life when it was the center. It just seems so bound up with a false sense of our identity, one that our culture promotes, and which we can cling to as the arbiter of all that is good. I sometimes feel I should spend a lot less time on Spark because of all the attention it gets.

But it does mean I have to be even more honest with myself about what I really need on my plate. I don't feel I can go by straight hunger and satiety, unless I was willing to eat at any hour of the day, and I'm not.

I have two online events today back to back that will take me through my dinner hour. I am torn because I am liking being done with eating by 6, but can't eat during the second event. Should I wait until 7 which means not finishing until even later, or have a snack before I start the first one at 4 and just go longer overnight. I don't mind being hungry during the day, but I really don't like trying to fall asleep when I'm hungry, and I do sometimes feel twinges of hunger at night since I started 16:8/TMAD, even though I'm NOT hungry after dinner. I usually feel very full.

Even though I don't count calories, I do have some guidelines about how much dense food I eat at my meals each day, so it has a similar effect to counting. That doesn't feel unnatural or deprivational to me.

May I ask what influences what you eat when you do eat? Do you tend to graze or snack a lot, or concentrate your food at meals?



Nine years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
10 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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CD25907434 Posts: 79
5/5/20 9:35 A

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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 18,285
5/4/20 8:12 P

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Sorry to hear of your discouragement, but glad to hear you are also accessing some good feelings.

Actually I hate to tell you but it is entirely possible to gain weight on the calories you wrote about. I know of a short older (now in her 70's) woman who was morbidly obese, had the surgery, lost. started gaining again, and now has religiously tracked calories for years. She became quite thin, and finds she usually has to eat 1,000 a day or FEWER- sometimes a few weeks of 500 a day- to keep her weight where she wants. She is one of the mostly disciplined dieters I have ever had contact with, all online. I wouldn't have done it, but she wanted a slim body. I haven't been in touch with her for awhile.

How long had you done the 800 calories a day? I looked up the plan and just saw what looked like the basics, but I thought it said it wasn't recommended to do it daily past two weeks. But it does seem it could be used a few times a week for a long time. I have to tell you that I have some fasting days where I don't eat a lot more than that anyway. But I do eat mostly unrefined foods.

I haven't tracked consistently for years but I have determined approximately what a good meal is for me. Have you found any meal patterns that you know are about the "right" calories so that you could just use them as your guide?

Even if you don't lose much, there are still good reasons to fast some and eat a "healthy" diet. I hope you'll hang in there on those goals.

I'm so sorry you so often have to deal with pain along with everything else. Big hugs!

And I'm sure grateful to see you here. Save me from Facebook!

Nine years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
10 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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CD25907434 Posts: 79
5/4/20 10:29 A

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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 18,285
5/1/20 7:12 P

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Things worked out this morning so that it was pretty easy to wait until 1 p.m. to eat. But then I changed my routine in such a way that I was defending snacking, which I had decided in May not to allow, especially since I had so little time to dinner. I'm pretty sure I ate as much as I would have had for dinner, but I don't want to close my window now, as I have not been falling asleep before midnight and have been feeling some twinges of hunger later, which I have not felt often after dinner for years, even when I was up late. It feels like it would be too long a time until my body will sleep. So I will have some little nosh near 6, even though I probably won't be hungry. My plan for May had been to continue with a window from 10 am-6 pm, with some later starts when it was easy. The new wrinkle was that I wanted to stop snacking between the two meals, except for a latte or mocha. I'll try again tomorrow. I think the amount of food I take in will be fine, but I am also trying to train a habit of longer gaps between meals. I never want to go back to permasnacking.

Nine years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
10 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 18,285
4/29/20 5:16 P

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How long have you been at it, the 800 calorie option? Could you allow yourself an option of easing into it by EOD-ing it for a couple of weeks? Does flagging mean you are having some hard hours waiting for your next meal or eating more or something else that you did not intend?



Nine years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
10 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


4,189 Days since:  I began the NO S lifestyle
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CD25907434 Posts: 79
4/29/20 4:36 P

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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 18,285
4/27/20 11:59 P

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Here is a link to a new Spark member whom I invited to the team, but I think will try on his/her own. But you might want to take a look. Member reported that s/he would be eating 800 calories and fasting for 18 hours. Did not say whether there was a book involved, just responding to a buddy's challenge.

www.sparkpeople.com/mypage.asp?id=JS
FJ
EDI


Nine years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
10 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


4,189 Days since:  I began the NO S lifestyle
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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 18,285
4/27/20 8:02 P

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I fight the mental chain to the scale. It actually hardly affected me when I was losing, even though I weighed every day and averaged once a week. I had months and months of plateaus, but I knew I wasn't going to do much different, so I accepted it. I almost never am willing to change my behavior because of the scale; maybe for half a day, but not much longer. (But I also had no real health issues.) I just could not accept that I was going to compulsively eat junk food, mostly sweets, for my last decades of life after 40 years of struggle and mostly gain. I didn't care if I never lost.

But I have to admit I like catching a look at my thinner body. Just conditioning. It's a myth that it makes us better. We just get more approval. That bothers me, but others don't even question it.

I do, however, think, ironically, that eating less IS good for our bodies. The weight loss is just a side effect!

I weigh at the turn of the seasons, seven days and then average. But I watch my eating behavior every day. I rarely need the scale to tell me I've been overeating! SOME overeating is natural, I believe.

I have a lot of food thoughts even when I'm not actually hungry. It's discouraging because a doctor in a video I watched today said that was a sign I am not in ketosis. But what it would take to get there sounds too hard. I am just going to stick with a minimum 16-hour fast daily for now and try to get better at diverting myself in between meals.

Edited by: OOLALA53 at: 4/27/2020 (20:23)
Nine years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
10 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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CD25907434 Posts: 79
4/27/20 12:28 P

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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 18,285
4/26/20 12:01 P

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Hope I am not repeating myself: Back before my turnaround, when I was binging/compulsive eating just about all afternoon and/or night, I was not hungry in the mornings but still ate some kind of breakfast and liked it. When I started sticking to three one-plate meals, I was wonderfully hungry for early morning breakfast. It had been be early because for years and had to start teaching high school at 7 or 7:30, which mean getting to campus at 6:30 a.m. the was hungry for all my meals even as I lost back to high school weight (over a few years). After another few years, hunger started to recede and I have been trying to find as easy a rhythm as I had while also aiming for anti-aging benefits. (Just eating tinier meals was not satisfying.) I have ended up losing more weight, welcomed but not actually intended. I really feel for you! In my ten years of actually being way too involved here and on another site, I have recognized that there is an element of luck that people do not want to admit, especially in finding something they find easy or having the weight “just fall off.” I see people on a FB fasting site that have absolutely astounding results in a short time and others that do just about the same thing and have hardly any change. Some of the successes started way bigger than I was and end up smaller than I am in a much shorter time and apparently stay that way. I often have to do some mental gymnastics to stay grounded since our culture worships thinness so much.

I wish I could make it all easy for you! Bodies can be so different. But one thing I have become convinced of is that there are benefits to at least intermittent caloric reduction even without weight loss. And I feel better when I do not overeat. Do you? I hope at least some non- scale benefit can sustain you for a bit. You deserve to feel good!

Not super hungry but not much excited about trying to wait longer to eat because of it. Oh, if only something besides writing here or browsing the internet was as compelling as food!

Nine years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
10 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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4/26/20 10:30 A

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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 18,285
4/25/20 2:30 P

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I woke up hungry in a way I don't usually. It was really a struggle to get to my eating window. I definitely ate beyond fullness yesterday. I felt driven. Not in the old compulsive way, but definitely propelled. It finally settled down and the rest of the window was pretty peaceful.

Not very hungry this morning, and not the same push to eat, but I did go ahead and start brunch (in my window) before hunger. (Still working on eating.) I think it will help to think about a specific meal I will have later so even if random thoughts to nibble come up, I will think about how I like to save my appetite for a meal. I enjoy it more that way. I continue to envy people who have a window that feels like it really fits, but the discomfort I have is actually minor. I don't think there is a better option out there right now.

Nine years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
10 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 18,285
4/24/20 12:13 P

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Yesterday I again had had no hunger but finally ate at 3 p.m. .Ketones? Who knows. I am pretty sure I ate around 800 calories or less. I don't intend that but would have had t stuff myself to get it all in my window. I read on other sites of women eating in a 2-3 hour, or even less, window and still chowing down on 1200, 1300, even 1600 calories. Then they wonder why they aren't losing. (It is on a site that keeps saying not to worry about calories.) But they say you are supposed to stop eating when just you're full. If I'm not careful, when I do that, I get really hungry in a few hours.

I had been doing things to stay busy but after the morning, a struggle happened that has been an issue for decades. I get tired of staying busy and and don't want to face the other tasks it would be smart to do. Even the kind of activities that could fill the time just seem like they would be junk food now. I would really like the pleasure of eating even when I am still not hungry but also would prefer to wait. I really don't like this tug, but I guess it's like parts of a job I don't like.

This is a problem that I had when I first tried intuitive eating way back in the early 80's. I got tired of waiting to get hungry! In fact, I know that some of my eating problems are actually problems with life in general. And I feel I have put tremendous effort into trying to fix that side of things but it is way more complicated and difficult than waiting to eat and learning to enjoy better quality food! I remember the title of a book for those with compulsive eating disorders, which is how I thought of myself: Life is Hard, Food is Easy. That's a little simplistic, but it often fits me.

I woke up hungry today and it hasn't gone away. Dang! I've been at this for weeks and thought it would have kicked in by now to be burning my fats in the morning, like yesterday. Oh, well, less than an hour before I can eat, though I am considering making something in the Instantpot and might wait for it, after my whining!

The obsession continues. I wish I could become obsessed about some other things!

Edited by: OOLALA53 at: 4/24/2020 (12:22)
Nine years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
10 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
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CD25907434 Posts: 79
4/24/20 8:52 A

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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 18,285
4/22/20 6:25 P

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I used to use No S pretty religiously and still think it should be a first line of defense against the onslaught of food. Even Fung says that. But appetite changes, aging, concerns about maintaining mental clarity, et al led me a few years ago to start experimenting with IF.

I did use No S for the first couple of months this year because my habits had been so erratic/faulty in the months before, but I was ready to try something different because my meals had to be quite precise for me to dependably get hungry for the next meal, which I prefer. However, even when I am eating in such a short window, I am still really hungry for only one meal a day. But I am not willing to eat just once a day, unless burning ketones starts happening more strongly to weaken my appetite. I'm not hungry but I still want to eat!

Monday morning, I felt no hunger at the time I set to open my window these days, so I held out until afternoon (had online webinars to distract me.) But yesterday and today, I felt hungry almost from the moment I woke up, which can be a long time before eating time! I held out. I haven't intended to eat a bit low in calories, but I have. Could that be why I'm so hungry? Doesn't quite make sense; theoretically, if I'm in deficit, and have been doing this awhile so should have depleted my glycogen stores, my body should be able to get the fat fires burning and decrease appetite. But bodies can be unpredictable! And I actually prefer SOME time being hungry before a meal. In any case, made it today and see no reason I won't be able to keep to my window today. I'm even getting my liquid drinking in. I have never been very compliant regarding water drinking (seeing too many people keeping their water goals and never losing a pound), but I want to see now if it will make an effect on my skin, which relatively recently seemed to jump a couple of levels in dryness. But I am counting two cups of coffee and a lot of tea in the 2-liter quota.

Nine years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
10 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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4/22/20 8:49 A

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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 18,285
4/21/20 11:23 P

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I'm glad you found us/me! There are just a few of us here, but for now, that is probably a good thing. I think I said there is a huge group on Facebook, but it is overwhelming to me.

I'm glad to hear you have some freer days; you don't have to defend them to me. From what I've read, losing with fasting has less of a depressing effect on metabolism than if you were eating the lower calories spread out and not getting ketones going, and eating more food will actually temporarily boost the metabolism.

I always think it's funny, too, when a nutritionist says people won't get enough of the right nutrients if they cut way back. I think it's possible a lot of us won't get all that might be better to get from food, but Lordy, does she think people are getting those nutrients from overeating the stuff they do eat? From the bread, chips, sweets, etc. that apparently are the major source of calories in the American diet?

I pretty much gave up snacking- on weekdays, anyway- ten years ago-, but to this day, I still love reveling in memories of the food I had for dinner and how sated my body is all evening. Had a delicious Indian entree and a favorite dressing on veggies, etc. Comfortably full!



Nine years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
10 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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CD25907434 Posts: 79
4/21/20 10:03 A

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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 18,285
4/21/20 12:12 A

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I'll add that for the heck of it, I tracked my calories. I sometimes do it for Spark points or to see where my protein is. (Keeping it under 52 grams a day.) They came to around 770. I guess ketones are being burned, suppressing my appetite. I don't know if you read about the Up Day Down Day diet, but I'm pretty sure he said that a maintenance down day can be about 50% of your regular calories. I don't usually hit that few, but it happened pretty naturally today. I'm not actually willing to make that a habit on purpose because I'm pretty sure I'm maintaining without it and I am trying not to layer too many strategies. I eat a pretty unprocessed diet, though I know that isn't considered essential on many fasting programs; I think that does some of the work of purposeful calorie reduction, since the body doesn't use as many calories from unprocessed foods. I don't claim its hundreds of calories a day, but over time, it makes a difference and I think there are other benefits, but that is a separate issue from fasting, which can have great benefits no matter what you eat. Don' want to deflate anybody! It's your choice what's on your plate.

Nine years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
10 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 18,285
4/20/20 11:10 P

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To that end, I hope it's okay if I suggest that we keep most of our communication here on this thread for awhile. On other teams, I've seen attention get diverted off when members start a lot of new topic threads instead of in just bringing the idea up a central place until that central place gets so "full" that it could use some splitting off. (Not all members get alerts to new threads, and the thread would often fizzle out from lack of interest.) Aack, I've probably turned you off with my preferences right away!

I was about to abandon this team when a notice came that it needed a new team leader. I really wanted a place on Spark to convene fasters in general. I myself am juggling so many influences that it keeps me from feeling like I belong in the few other fasting teams because they are often so influenced by only one or two authors or combine it with low carb, which is not my bias. Also, fasting is not how I lost my weight, and I've had only intermittent success with keeping to any consistent fasting schedule! But I am very interested in fasting for longevity, especially cognitive longevity. And to some degree, to see if it can make a difference in my skin texture/aging. I don't think I'm the best choice for leader except that no one else took it on!

I know I said I suggest keeping most discussion to a main chat thread, but I also envision that if members want more support for some specific styles of fasting, that would be a good reason for targeted threads. Hopefully, those would arise for people who had tried out an IF style, possibly discussing the experiments on the main chat thread, and knew they were pretty committed and would stick with the thread for awhile.

Also, I admit I'm terrible with coming up with challenges and such. I myself have found competitions and such to backfire or just be a stopgap measure, so I'm reluctant to participate, but others like them. Actually, I think others can propose such challenges on new threads any time.

Just to let you know where I am now, I am presently just trying to make 16:8 fasting/eating windows a consistent habit, though I have some days of 18:6. I started just about the time of lockdown and been in compliance with hours most days. I am only now feeling like I might be having some good hours of burning ketones, which others say make it all a lot easier. I don't yet find it easy, but my curiosity is spurring me on. I actually tried different protocols for the last few years, with negative results. But something about a new year and a new decade brought together the forces of motivation. At this time, I don't plan to have a consistent eating window fewer than 6 hours, though some days might work out that way as I get better at filling my time during fasting. I'm very aware of suggestions to get busy, etc. but being able to do that has actually been a chronic issue for me and more challenging than overeating.

Then again, though these are my biases, I won't stop anyone from doing things differently! What do you think about it all?



Nine years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
10 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 18,285
4/20/20 5:41 P

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It's not very active, but I hope to have a small, supportive group at least. More later.

Nine years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
10 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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CD25907434 Posts: 79
4/20/20 4:23 P

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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 18,285
4/18/20 1:46 A

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Marie, I actually do know of a longevity researcher who has influenced me in other ways who discourages anything more than 12 hours fasting in senior citizens, but I'm experimenting with it anyway. He has written articles with another longevity expert who recommends a long overnight fast, but not a lot more than that. Neither of them promote it as a weight loss tool, interestingly, and it's not why I'm doing it.

I myself don't consider it particularly easy, and honestly, if I were truly hungry more times a day, I would not do it, but since I have lost a lot of my true hunger drive, I use it. I still have a lot of DESIRE to eat when I'm not actually hungry, which leads me to believe it's a combination of boredom and my body not truly effectively tapping into its fat stores. So many people claim when they get fat adapted, they lose many food thoughts. I'd like to see that happen. I've had about a month of about 85% compliance of a minimum of 16 hours overnight and I still wake up every day wishing I could have a nosh and my coffee with cream and stevia even though I'm not one bit hungry. But I want some of the other benefits besides weight loss, so I'm staying with it for a few more months at least.

Brad Pilon's was the first fasting book I looked at. I have rarely gone 24 hours, but I did get convinced that it was not a crazy thing to do. And I do believe shorter eating windows is a smarter way to reduce eating than using calorie limits alone. I would rather be fat than count calories the rest of my life, unless there is a health reason to do so. And I'm not fat now. I do sometimes track calories, but not for weight loss.

I've read a lot more books on it now, but I'd like to stop obsessing and just do it!

I'm glad you're here! And I would say 21 hours is a definite win.

Are you aiming to do a couple of 24-hour fasts a week, as Pilon recommends? What is your plan for the other days?

Nine years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
10 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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CMBMARIE's Photo CMBMARIE Posts: 268
4/17/20 11:26 A

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Good morning!
Here in Michigan, we have 4 inches of heavy wet snow making the entire farm look like a Curry & Ives Christmas painting. LOL It is beautiful. Tomorrow we are supposed to be in the 50s with sunshine. Thank heavens I live on high ground!
I am 19 hours into an accidental 24 hour fast. I ate breakfast early yesterday and did not get around to "lunch" until 4 in the afternoon. I ate a good lunch, healthy choices, and full portions. I didn't overeat, and I didn't skimp. My husband made himself a big salad around 9:30pm and it occurred to me that I had not eaten anything since 4:30. Still I wasn't hungry and went on with my evening. When I went to bed around midnight, I had a passing fancy of eating something before I went up. Realizing that eating right before bed would be pretty stupid, I just went to bed. So, here I am 11:30 in the morning the next day thinking, "Mmmm, you have gone 19 hours with no food, so why not the full 24?" I have done two 24 hour fasts and know full well that these last few hours for me are just mind games/gymnastics. I am not doing any heavy work or exercise. I will let you know how it works out. Have a great day!
12:02 AM 4/18
Well, I made it to 1:30 with out eating, so that was 21 hours. I started getting a little bit of a headache. I don't know if it was from not eating or something else as I did not have this before. I decided not to push it. I still take it as a win. All of the benefits were still there. Day by day. Good night.

Edited by: CMBMARIE at: 4/18/2020 (00:05)
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CMBMARIE's Photo CMBMARIE Posts: 268
4/17/20 11:15 A

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Welcome to our group, Rainbow. Have your read Eat, Stop, Eat yet? The author explains things so well, so that it is easy to understand the concept of fasting and why it is a natural way of eating for humans. I tend to drift off and nap when reading, so I purchased the audio book and listened to it while following along in the book. LOL That is how I got through Shakespeare in college a 100 years ago.

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RAINBOW_RAIN's Photo RAINBOW_RAIN Posts: 164
4/15/20 3:20 A

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Hi Guys, i am also new to fasting and is currently exploring how it works

Always have your stuff when you need it with @Dropbox. Sign up for free! http://db.tt/xAJpJZjF db.tt/GZJS55WA


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CMBMARIE's Photo CMBMARIE Posts: 268
4/14/20 11:15 A

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Hi,
For most of my adult life, I have been doing IF and didn't realize it or even know that it was a thing. When I wake up, I am NEVER hungry. This was always an issue in high school because my parents were from the "breakfast is the most important meal of the day" club. I would usually wind up at school barely hanging on to my morning meal. I stop eating around 6ish in the evening and am usually not the least bit interested eating until 10am to noon the next day. Sometimes, I am hungry earlier but not often.
I have read Eat Stop Eat and agree with the principles whole-heartedly. At 71, I was not sure that I should be doing this, so I checked several sources on geriatric fasting emoticon Everything I read indicates that IF is fine for healthy elders. I have done two 24 hour fasts finishing my supper on one night by 6 and eating my next meal after 6 the next night. Eighteen hours is not too difficult for me since I seem synced to that schedule. The next 6 hours is pretty much a mind game. I kept telling myself that hunger comes and goes, so that when I did get hungry in those last 6 hours, I could stick it out getting busy with something to do. I did not do any heavy work on those days; although, I did still walk the dog for 2 miles. We just ambled along and took our time.
With this whole Covid-19 debacle, I have been off the rails. We quarantined since March 15th. I am finally accepting this as the new normal. I need to take care of me in more ways than isolation. So, here I am. I hope all of you are well and in good spirits. If this disease as taken friends or family from you, please accept my sincere condolences. Take care.
Cynthia

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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 18,285
4/11/20 7:38 P

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Sticking with it. Some days are pretty easy, certainly as easy if not easier than early complicated diets I did back in the day. Actually, some people would think my diet is complicated now, but it's just the way things have evolved as health takes on a bigger role each year as I age, especially memory health!

Nine years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
10 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


4,189 Days since:  I began the NO S lifestyle
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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 18,285
4/10/20 2:28 P

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Keeping with an 8- or 6- hr window. We are having a late rainy season and boy do I miss my doctored coffee in the mornings but don't want to end eating any earlier (consistently) on purpose, so I wait. I did stop around 4 one day, but it was not good, I don't think, because it was angst eating. Wasn't upset about anything in particular, but just had those ansty feelings. Usually, I think it's a very bad idea to reinforce those with food, but I did it. Over now. Sometimes I go another hour or even two in the morning, usually because I just don't feel hungry. But that tends to push brunch and dinner awfully close. Yet I don't want to push it by just skipping dinner if I'm not very hungry and then end up eating later because I actually do get hungry. Trying to sleep while actively hungry just seems like more effort than I'm looking for from fasting. I just would like to feel what it's like for my body to get a flow of ketones for a few hours a day. If it's working right, I shouldn't be very hungry in the morning, but today I sure was. I ate a little more modestly yesterday, finally not feeling like I had the need/right to pick at food between my meals.. I would have thought the body would get to ketones even faster. Oh, well. It's only been a few weeks since I have done it more consistently. Going to suspend judgement for another three weeks.

Nine years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
10 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


4,189 Days since:  I began the NO S lifestyle
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OOLALA53's Photo OOLALA53 Posts: 18,285
4/8/20 12:21 P

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I think I had a rebellion day last week but don't usually track ( one of the reasons I am attracted to fasting), so I am not sure when. Shooting for and making it most days to an 8- hour eating window; sometimes 6 hours. Sorry I cannot be more inspiring with weight loss; not doing this for weight loss and will not weigh again until summer solstice. But I know I had lost since the beginning of the year for other reasons and it feels like that has been maintained. (fit of pants)

Edited by: OOLALA53 at: 4/10/2020 (14:02)
Nine years of maintaining a 20% weightloss and counting.
*To seek happiness, identifying the Self with the body, is like trying to cross a river on the back of a crocodile." Ramana Maharshi
*The No S Diet saved me from my emotional eating defeats.
10 years and counting! nosdiet.com/
*Get to the next meal hungry!
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=1323


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